Drupaltin collaboration?

[Raze]

I know you do a great job here, but why not collaborate with the guys over at Drupaltin (http://www.theoverclocked.com/drupaltin)?

They want to achieve the same thing, vB+Drupal.

The only difference is that they are doing it all through modules and plug-ins, so both Drupal and VB's source files are untouched, meaning both should be able to function as normal. Which should also make future upgrades easier.

Anyway, what do you think?

[elmuerte]

Drupaltin is bound to fail in their goal because there are still quite some things in Drupal 5 that need to be changed in order to cope with some vBulletin elements.
In vbDrupal 5 I needed to make 15 adjustments to the core Drupal code, the rest I could do through modules.
It is possible to reduce the adjustments even more, but at the cost of various tight integration features.
At the current state Drupaltin is barely much more than the drupalvb module at drupal.org

[sifuhall]

With the namespace issues that exist between drupal and vbulletin I cannot see how it would be possible to run both at the same time (like adding drupal blocks to your vbulletin forum).

That being said I wish those guys the best and hope they are able to create the product they want.

[StuartDH]

Maybe it needs a better explanation as what each of the paths do the smae or differently. I'm looking to simply enable vBulletin users to work in Drupal, work with each drupal upgrade as soon as it's out and not really looking to getting blocks into vBulletin etc, so I think that drupaltin would be best. I'm currently using vbdrupal, but can't upgrade to drupal 5 and so plan to move to drupaltin. I guess each path has it's advantages/disadvantages, but it's not so obvious at first.

[elmuerte]

the only thing drupaltin currently provides is shared authentication, however it appears to use two individual sessions that are no longer linked after the initial authentication.

[StuartDH]

the only thing drupaltin currently provides is shared authentication

I'd have thought that that was the only thing that really matters in integrating vB and drupal, and it's what separates it from DrupalVB - everything else is icing on the cake.

Crucially, it does it without affecting vB or Drupal and so all modules can be used and upgrades can be applied as soon as they come out from Drupal or vBulletin.

however it appears to use two individual sessions that are no longer linked after the initial authentication.

I thought it uses just the vB user database, but backs everything up for a restore of the old Drupal database if it's uninstalled.

I like vBDrupal and I like the icing of the integrated modules etc...but it takes a long time for the upgrades to come out, so drupaltin wins on the icing of all the features of the newest versions of Drupal

Both mods have their merits and it would be great if they could be combined into a single killer mod.

[elmuerte]

DrupalVB (not to be confused by this projects witch is called vbDrupal) and Drupaltin (currently) only provides shared user accounts. I don't really call that integration.

vbDrupal provides:

shared user accounts
single sign-on
shared sessions (logout on one side also logs you out on the other side)
linked user actions; chaning an account in vbulletin will also call the modules in drupal and vice versa
shared theme (through the defaultangy theme)
access drupal functionality from within vbulletin; like the menu on the left side on this site (more advanced things require additional effort)
use vbulletin as the source for content comments
various drupal modules that including vbulletin features in the drupal pages (latest threads, callendar, PM)


In vbDrupal both systems can co-exist. But that came with a small price of adjust some parts of Drupal (because the other way around it not really possible).
And so far, the time difference between Drupal 4.7 and vbDrupal 4.7 was not more than a day or two. As for 3rd party modules, that's something we can't do anything about, and shouldn't have to bother with anyway (because they should work in almost every case).

[StuartDH]

but drupaltin uses one account (that's that's needed), a single sign-on, logout one side and you're logged out on the other...etc

vbdrupal is great for the last 3 points you listed, but the time gap between drupal 4.7 and vbdrupal 4.7 being no more than one or two days...what is it between drupal 5.0 and vbdrupal 5.0???

[elmuerte]

Well, there is no vbdrupal 5, so there's no time gap. With the time gap I mean the time taken for vbdrupal to be updated when a new drupal version was released in the same family (e.g. the 4.7 family or the 5 family).
I know it has been quite a long time since drupal released drupal 5, but they released it quite soon after drupal 4.7 was released. I started from scratch with vbDrupal 4.7 so it took time to mature, vbDrupal 5 didn't take a lot of time to get on the same level as Drupal 5, but I also wanted to address some other things (like the whole installation and update procedure).

Anyway, I don't see why I have to defend this project, either you like it or you don't. I'm using this approach and work on it for free in my spare time. If I could make all the changes without messing with the Drupal core files I would have done it, but it can't. And that's all I'm saying. I've put it quite some effort in the whole project to be able to say that you can't provide a proper (complete) integration without having to edit some of Drupal's files (and this is mostly because of how vBulletin 3.x works, but there's also a function collision between Drupal and vBulletin).
Drupal 4.6 had the same problem as vBulletin 3.x has, but they fixed that in Drupal 4.7 (that's because you can use the Drupal menus within vBulletin since vbDrupal 4.7 without any complications).
Maybe with Drupal 6 and vBulletin 4.x I don't have to edit any of the core files and simply publish all my custom modules and stuff.

[All4Data]

keep up the good work elmuerte

[peach]

I think some people see the vbdrupal core adjustments in drupal core as a huge problem while in reality it barely makes a difference. I've built a number of sites with vBdrupal and have succesfully installed dozens of modules, including some parts of ecommerce, wich was believed to be dysfunctional in vBdrupal. Only in 1 or two instances I had to change some database call but only due to sloppy coding in these modules.

[smashingyoungman]

I think some people see the vbdrupal core adjustments in drupal core as a huge problem while in reality it barely makes a difference. I've built a number of sites with vBdrupal and have succesfully installed dozens of modules, including some parts of ecommerce, wich was believed to be dysfunctional in vBdrupal. Only in 1 or two instances I had to change some database call but only due to sloppy coding in these modules.

Eek! I hope I don't run into any problems with ecommerce on my new site, as at will be the whole reason for the site's existence, more or less. It seemed to run fine with initial testing on my test forum, but it really hasn't been put to use yet, and I can only do basic maintenance stuff when it comes to database work. If I run into any problems, I'll come here crying for help. :p

[elmuerte]

Only in 1 or two instances I had to change some database call but only due to sloppy coding in these modules.

Was it strictly a vbDrupal issue or a general eCommerce issue? If it was the latter, did you report it to them?

[peach]

Was it strictly a vbDrupal issue or a general eCommerce issue? If it was the latter, did you report it to them?

http://www.vbdrupal.org/forum/showthread.php?t=883

[elmuerte]

D'oh

well.. I can't remember everything ;)

[Goddess]

I think some people see the vbdrupal core adjustments in drupal core as a huge problem while in reality it barely makes a difference. I've built a number of sites with vBdrupal and have succesfully installed dozens of modules, including some parts of ecommerce, wich was believed to be dysfunctional in vBdrupal. Only in 1 or two instances I had to change some database call but only due to sloppy coding in these modules.

well, coming from an outside perspective as someone looking for a vb-drupal integration solution, yes, the notion of a forked project gave me considerable pause intially. i asked myself a lot of questions: what if it's not maintained? how heavy are the modications to the core? will i be able to use the mods i want? can i change courses later or am i forever committed? will i get the support i need? etc., etc. i'm taking over a largish vb community, and i wanted a solid cms to transition to that's going to be around a long time, have an active development team, and bring me the features i need and want. it's a big decision. i saw there were some integration options with drupal, i liked what i saw with drupal, and was impressed by the size and activity of the community. it seemed to offer me exactly what i needed, so then i started looking for a bridge to allow single signon.

drupaltin caught my attention initally because it promised a shared login, no modifications to the core of either app so i could upgrade as approrpiate hopefully, and the ability to uninstall one or the other without trashing the remaining app (thereby giving me a solid exit door if something went awry). with limited modifications to the core, modules and plugins should mostly work. those things were appelaing to me.

after trying out drupaltin on my sandbox site, it became clear i need another solution. it simply didn't work for me properly, and the devleoper (that is singular, as in a developer, by the way) says he's not supporting 1.0 because he's working on 2.0, which he makes great promises over. vague, perhaps, with no anticipated release date beyond "soon," but great.

no offense to him, of course. he certainly seemed nice enough, and i appreciate the devlepment work folks do, wherever they were at. i know most all of the developers i've met have "real jobs" elsewhere. but that doesn't help me in my quest...simply put, we were on different pages. he's talking to me about "fine wine taking time," and i'm asking, "but what is there now that will get me drunk?" metaphorically speaking, of course. :)

after reading more about vbdrupal here, the move to stay closer to the core is a reassurance to this sometimes-nervous webmaster. it tells me the stuff that's changed is only what needs to be, and at least suggests a possible out door if the vbdrupal project doesn't always meet my needs.

[All4Data]

there are never false promises on Vbdrupal

despite how seem people would see certain comments as non committal I have found what is taking place here to be genuine

and I hope to be able to contribute in some way

[hjmaier]

No need for hard feelings :)

I use Drupaltin because i don't need the deep integration to Drupal that vBDrupal provides. I run different sites within one Drupal installation and only one of them uses vBulletin as a Forum. So Drupaltin was the better soloution for me. I am much more independent this way.

Best regards
hj